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Offline Cheerknowledge

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Down the Home stretch we go!
« on: October 28, 2013, 09:38:25 AM »
Thoughts as we approach the home stretch...
Any favorites?
Any exciting regions?
Any disappointments?
Things to watch for?
Predictions?

Let's go people, all divisions...DISCUSS
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

Offline cheerga94

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 05:36:55 PM »
Sad that i have a disappointment. It is getting to that point in GHSA cheer where we are starting to see the same things in routines. I rarely see any creativity! You can pretty much bet that every team will do a full up and switch up. Come on people bring out the variations of full ups and release moves! tick tocks are legal for a reason!

Offline JustACheerFan

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 09:26:42 PM »
Sad that i have a disappointment. It is getting to that point in GHSA cheer where we are starting to see the same things in routines. I rarely see any creativity! You can pretty much bet that every team will do a full up and switch up. Come on people bring out the variations of full ups and release moves! tick tocks are legal for a reason!

Actually, I have seen quite a few teams use ballups and ticktocks in their stunt sequence. TBH, hitting a full-up solidly is pretty impressive, moreso than some of the other new advanced entries. I think the creativity can come in other ways as well.

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 08:15:19 AM »
Sad that i have a disappointment. It is getting to that point in GHSA cheer where we are starting to see the same things in routines. I rarely see any creativity! You can pretty much bet that every team will do a full up and switch up. Come on people bring out the variations of full ups and release moves! tick tocks are legal for a reason!

I don't disagree with you completely but I don't think creativity is completely out of the question.  You still have creativity in openings, cheer, dance, tumbling formations, and pyramids.  I believe stunt is where it becomes cookie cutter.  You know that everybody is going to be doing a specific sequence.  The reason I believe we see the full up and switch up the most is because a true inversion is extremely hard for 3 or 4 groups to do.  However, you will see 1 or 2 squads do that ridiculously easy inversion of just bending over and standing up (WHICH IS AN EXTREME JOKE TO AN INVERSION IMO).
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Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 08:44:02 AM »
Thoughts as we approach the home stretch...[/size]Any favorites? I am going to throw out what I believe are some favorite based off the competitions I have seen and videos I have seen.  Which means I may leave some out but not intentionally, mainly because I haven't seen them.  In "A" you gotta go with Mt. Paran for Private and Trion for Public.  Two strong teams that know how to perform this time of the year.  In "AA" I believe there are a couple: Coosa, Bremen, Calhoun, and Pepperell.  All teams that find themselves in the top 6 each year.  In "AAA" I am going to go with Cartersville (Will they hit?), Central, Pike, and North Oconee (I have heard nothing but great things about this team).  In "AAAA" you have to go with reigning champs Veterans, Carrollton, Columbus (not much on this team and not much has been said, but if history speaks for itself, they will somehow find a way to show up.), and Alexander and Eastside I believe can be in the mix for top 6.  The things with these teams are, who hits?  In "AAAAA" I am going to go with McIntosh (Looking amazing this year), Northgate (Just as strong as previous years and their history speaks for themselves), Houston county (reigning champs), Lee County (Has beaten Houston once),  and Alatoona (always talented). in "AAAAAA" I will go with Lambert (STRONG), Kennesaw (STRONG), Johns Creek (Amazing), Mill Creek (Know how to handle big stage), and South Forsyth (Great Energy and fun routine).  In "Co-Ed" just gotta go with OLA (Crowd loves them), Winder (Great routine and Skills), Peachtree Ridge (Know how to handle big stage and very clean). Any exciting regions? I don't know a lot about each divsion and region but here are my guesses, Region 6-AAAAAA, Region 4-AAAAA, Region 4, 5, and 7 AAAA, AAA????, and Region 7-AAAny disappointments? I don't want to say I have been disappointed in any teams out there. I feel like all are doing a great job.  I will say I am dissapointed to see a couple of things:
1) They still allow a stinking bend over touch my toe and stand up to be called an inversion.  This, to me (somebody who actually has a clue), is a joke to an inversion.  Anybody can bend over, put their hands on a post (if you have 3 groups) and stand up.  The post should HONESTLY be considered a front spot.
2) Judging inconsistency.  Are we really surprised here? One week a team will see a 200 and the next they will see a 270.  I mean........  Also, I have heard of crazy warnings that are no where near the definition of what the stunt or pyramid is.  I haven't heard of any major shocks but the scores are all over the place.  Hopefully they can get it together before state.
3) Again I am going to complain about less than 16.  I know I know, it gets old.  But hear me out people.   In AAAA, yes AAAA-Student bodies of 860 to 1,1000, I have only seen two teams with 16 people on a mat.  Everybody else goes with 15 and then they have 3-4 alternates.  HELLO???  I don't think the issue is people, I think the issue is a competitive edge.  Which causes issues.  SET A NUMBER GHSA, just like in any sport.  When it is a subjective sport, you should have a set number or else it will be used as an advantage.  We know this exists, we just choose to ignore it.  I know their are smaller schools with smaller numbers, but before 3 years ago, we did not have this issue.  Teams put 16 girls on the mat because that was the standard.  It doesn't seem to be an issue in AAAAA or AAAAAA or Co-Ed.  AAA I might agree, AA for sure, and A absolutely.Things to watch for?  Who hits at region!.  These will be the teams I believe will be poised for state.  If you are having issues at region, the unknown will be present moving into State.Predictions?  I don't like predictions here honestly.  I am not one to go and pick because I don't really have a favorite.  Plus it's subjective when it comes to execution. But it will be an interesting day in Columbus when 2 of the top teams hit!

AS ALWAYS!  CHEER ON AND GOOD LUCK!
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

Offline cheerub

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 05:07:05 PM »
Great commentary, especially on the topic of 16. For bigger schools and classifications it should be 16. Ghsa needs to stop allowing teams to manipulate the rubric and maintain the integrity of this SPORT.

Offline Cheer2013

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 06:42:35 PM »
My daughter's team is competing with 15 on the floor, but its due to injuries this season not an attempt to manipulate the rubric.  They started with 16 on the floor and were doing great, but after many injuries and 1 quitting they just couldnt get back to 16.  It sure would have been much easier if they could have, but it just wasn't possible.  Yes, they pulled up several from JV, but it was too late to replace an amazing talented flyer who is out for the season after an injury.  I'm saying this just to remind everyone there are legitimate reasons why some teams are competing with 15.  Good luck to all the teams over the next 3 weekends! 

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2013, 07:08:27 PM »
Cheer2013-

I understand where your coming from, I do. But I believe that if we are going to call ourselves a sport then we can't leave the door open for manipulation. Things happen, trust me I know. But those same teams have to figure out how to get the job done. It's the nature of the beast...competition. When teams lose somebody, you put your next person in all the way down to your freshmen that might not be ready. You work hard to make it work. While your argument might be valid, it's only valid for that one situation.

Just by simply allowing less than 16, you will have those that choose to take the mat with 15 because it has, statistically speaking, a better chance to hit. Nobody can argue that. If it allows a "better chance" then it has to be considered an advantage. And if it's considered an advantage, then it's unfair no matter how you look at it. As a sport, we can't leave that door open.

The other thing that people can't argue is that it's happening, the manipulation of the scoresheet by putting 15 rather than 16 because it completely eliminates an entire stunt group which is a major deal. I have seen plenty of teams take the mat with 15 girls and 4 alternates walking behind that are fully capable of creating a 16 person team. It may not be the "best" 16 person team but it can fulfill that requirement.

You Keep it consistent by mandating a specific number of athletes or award higher difficulty by putting more people on the mat. Then you are forced to find a way to compete at a high level. It's kind of one of those tough luck kind of situations IMO. Dealing with injuries and people quitting is just part of the game that every team deals with.

I hate to hear your team had those issues and I do wish you all good luck!
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Offline OnThisDayIseeClearly

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My one cent on this thread
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 12:02:05 AM »
Very good thread by the way.  Scattered thoughts.  The reason why the number of girls on the floor is being manipulated is because the score sheet pretty much encourages it.  If a squad has 12 girls who can do standing fulls, but four who can't do anything, of course they're going to put the 12 out there to max out the score.  The GHSA created that situation.
Inconsistent judging?  That's a gross understatement.  I've seen it this year first hand.  I think part of that is a result of there being so many judges yet not a good job of teaching the rules.  It happens when there are that many competitions and that many judges I guess.  People who "interpet" rules rather than call them like they are (IE: what's an inverted flyer on a pyramid."
Having seen a lot of Central and South Georgia teams, actually have a few if not predictions, thoughts on who's doing what.  Dodge County has improved greatly.  I think they could win 3-AAA.  Pierce looks amazing again.  Houston County may've lost to Lee County the last time they faced off, but HoCo will be back. 
If Vidalia has a clean routine, they should win 2-AA.  Their tumbling is better than Toombs and Jeff Davis. Screven should win 3-AA but East Laurens will find a way to sectionals.  Bleckley's tumbling isn't as strong as past years, but they've got more than enough on stunts to win 4-AA.

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 10:23:06 AM »
Very good thread by the way.  Scattered thoughts.  The reason why the number of girls on the floor is being manipulated is because the score sheet pretty much encourages it.  If a squad has 12 girls who can do standing fulls, but four who can't do anything, of course they're going to put the 12 out there to max out the score.  The GHSA created that situation.

Exactly, key words manipulated and we created the problem.  Glad i'm not the only one seeing it.  It makes it so easy.  Again, it's not a major deal to put 16 on the mat.  I think the teams that do so are amazing and utilizing every bit of their squad to maximize participation in the most competitive manner.  Which is what a SPORT should do.  The number teams continue to go with is 15.  It allows you to have 3 extra girls on a mat without having to worry about the fourth stunt; from this you can still have two sides of a good looking pyramid.  dd one more person and the whole landscape of what is required changes.  CRAZY!!

On a side note, good prediction from the south regions.  Like the detail!
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

Offline OnThisDayIseeClearly

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 03:17:17 PM »
Very good thread by the way.  Scattered thoughts.  The reason why the number of girls on the floor is being manipulated is because the score sheet pretty much encourages it.  If a squad has 12 girls who can do standing fulls, but four who can't do anything, of course they're going to put the 12 out there to max out the score.  The GHSA created that situation.

Exactly, key words manipulated and we created the problem.  Glad i'm not the only one seeing it.  It makes it so easy.  Again, it's not a major deal to put 16 on the mat.  I think the teams that do so are amazing and utilizing every bit of their squad to maximize participation in the most competitive manner.  Which is what a SPORT should do.  The number teams continue to go with is 15.  It allows you to have 3 extra girls on a mat without having to worry about the fourth stunt; from this you can still have two sides of a good looking pyramid.  dd one more person and the whole landscape of what is required changes.  CRAZY!!

I think the changes were made without giving thought to what could happen.  No one ever explained to me why the rubric was changed.  But I don't think anyone ever thought that we'd be seeing squads complete with less than 16 as a result.  Last weekend, Dublin High School had TEN girls.  No, it wasn't injury either.  That's getting into Bizzaroworld territory, ten?

Offline cheerga94

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 10:54:34 PM »
Cheer2013-

I understand where your coming from, I do. But I believe that if we are going to call ourselves a sport then we can't leave the door open for manipulation. Things happen, trust me I know. But those same teams have to figure out how to get the job done. It's the nature of the beast...competition. When teams lose somebody, you put your next person in all the way down to your freshmen that might not be ready. You work hard to make it work. While your argument might be valid, it's only valid for that one situation.

Just by simply allowing less than 16, you will have those that choose to take the mat with 15 because it has, statistically speaking, a better chance to hit. Nobody can argue that. If it allows a "better chance" then it has to be considered an advantage. And if it's considered an advantage, then it's unfair no matter how you look at it. As a sport, we can't leave that door open.

The other thing that people can't argue is that it's happening, the manipulation of the scoresheet by putting 15 rather than 16 because it completely eliminates an entire stunt group which is a major deal. I have seen plenty of teams take the mat with 15 girls and 4 alternates walking behind that are fully capable of creating a 16 person team. It may not be the "best" 16 person team but it can fulfill that requirement.

You Keep it consistent by mandating a specific number of athletes or award higher difficulty by putting more people on the mat. Then you are forced to find a way to compete at a high level. It's kind of one of those tough luck kind of situations IMO. Dealing with injuries and people quitting is just part of the game that every team deals with.

I hate to hear your team had those issues and I do wish you all good luck!

Ehh i wouldn't exactly call it "manipulation" since every team in the state has the choice of how many they want to compete with. This sport is so complex. There is a problem for every situation that is thought of. Just because a school is 6A does not mean they have 16 varsity level cheerleaders. Just because a school is 1A does not mean they can't field an amazing team. Too many holes. The way it is now makes it fair(even though it seems like it'll give a lot of teams an upper advantage) If you can field a team of 16 and be super competitive, that is great. But at the end of the day that team would still have the advantage to move down. I personally like the look of 15 for high school. I like having the extra people behind stunts.

Offline OnThisDayIseeClearly

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 01:41:08 AM »

Ehh i wouldn't exactly call it "manipulation" since every team in the state has the choice of how many they want to compete with. This sport is so complex. There is a problem for every situation that is thought of. Just because a school is 6A does not mean they have 16 varsity level cheerleaders. Just because a school is 1A does not mean they can't field an amazing team. Too many holes. The way it is now makes it fair(even though it seems like it'll give a lot of teams an upper advantage) If you can field a team of 16 and be super competitive, that is great. But at the end of the day that team would still have the advantage to move down. I personally like the look of 15 for high school. I like having the extra people behind stunts.

I understand what you're saying.  But how does cheerleading look when squads can choose how many people to put on the mat and have it benefit them when in football, basketball, and baseball, not having the required number of guys will harm your team, or in some cases result in a penalty?  That to me just gives fuel to the ignoramuses who scream "cheerleading's not a sport."

Offline cheerga94

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 01:49:39 AM »

Ehh i wouldn't exactly call it "manipulation" since every team in the state has the choice of how many they want to compete with. This sport is so complex. There is a problem for every situation that is thought of. Just because a school is 6A does not mean they have 16 varsity level cheerleaders. Just because a school is 1A does not mean they can't field an amazing team. Too many holes. The way it is now makes it fair(even though it seems like it'll give a lot of teams an upper advantage) If you can field a team of 16 and be super competitive, that is great. But at the end of the day that team would still have the advantage to move down. I personally like the look of 15 for high school. I like having the extra people behind stunts.

I understand what you're saying.  But how does cheerleading look when squads can choose how many people to put on the mat and have it benefit them when in football, basketball, and baseball, not having the required number of guys will harm your team, or in some cases result in a penalty?  That to me just gives fuel to the ignoramuses who scream "cheerleading's not a sport."

we aren't a sport that requires a ball therefore i do not believe we should go by the same guidelines. as long as cheerleading is called cheerleading people are gonna say it is not a sport.

Offline OnThisDayIseeClearly

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Re: Down the Home stretch we go!
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 07:03:15 PM »
we aren't a sport that requires a ball therefore i do not believe we should go by the same guidelines. as long as cheerleading is called cheerleading people are gonna say it is not a sport.
[/quote]

Cross country doesn't require a ball.  But at region, you're only allowed to run your top seven.  The point is, just because cheerleading isn't the same kind of sport doesn't mean there shouldn't be consistent standards for it.  While it's true some people will denigrate cheerleading, why give them the ammo?

 

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