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Poll

Based on the routines, do you feel the correct team won?

Yes
1 (5.9%)
No
16 (94.1%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: November 20, 2014, 04:39:04 PM

Author Topic: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd  (Read 5814 times)

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Offline Cheerknowledge

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Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« on: November 12, 2014, 12:03:41 AM »
Please post results here ASAP!!  Feel free to discuss possible outcomes or thoughts as well.  GOOD LUCK to all teams!  Team schedules will be filled in once sectionals are complete.

Schedule
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

Offline Cheerinolympics

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 09:12:10 AM »
Winder Barrow first, McIntosh second, and Chestatee third.  Winder and McIntosh scored the same so the high score came in and settled the tie. Chestatee was a point behind although if you look at the results before the high and low scores dropped then Chestatee was ahead by two points.  Cheerknowledge so much for only the Rubric! Chestatee would have started with a 3 point deficit and Winder Barrow would have started with a six point deficit.  They have mostly assisted one mans.  McIntosh through a clean routine, actually better than last week, but still lost.  It basically boils down to the rubric is only part of the solution! I will say Winder Barrow faced a lot of trials and tribulations through out the year and did come to state to win. Congrats!

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 04:21:28 PM »
Apparently the rubric was thrown out the window in this division.

Hat's off to Winder for taking home a state championship and from an athlete standpoint, their sweat and work paid off.  Can't take that away from them.

However, the judges and the system seemed off on this one.  McIntosh was so good and hit so goo that I can only imagine the only place they got taken off was the bottom but even then, how do you take away there.  I expected their scores to be in the 97 and above range.  Clearly not.  but Winder and Chestatee shouldn't have been "technically" able to touch McIntosh's routine with McIntosh hitting.  I cant find an answer to this.  You can't argue energy here or them or how cute their routine was in comparison because that shouldn't effect the execution scores.  Showmanship-I felt all three teams got 3 here.  It's just hard to break down.  Scratching my head honestly.  I thought it would for sure be between chestatee and mcIntosh but Winder brought some game to the mat as well. 

THIS ONE IS A SHOCKER.  POINT BLANK.  Sorry-I rarely like to say I disagree with the outcome, but just not seeing it here.
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Offline gacheermom

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 07:49:02 AM »
I too was shocked by this result.  I thought McIntosh was the winner.  It's really hard to understand but when subjectivity is part of the equation....things like this happen.  That's one of the things I hate about cheerleading - it most always comes down to what a judge thinks of your performance not entirely up to what you do or don't do.

Offline cheeratl

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 09:26:41 AM »
I was shocked too. McIntosh hit that routine without question.  However, I had heard that McIntosh was the only team that maxed out on DOD since they have 4 stunt groups and Chestatee and WB only put up 3.  I don't think that is the case.  I went back and looked at their region routine.  For the McIntosh coed secondary stunts, the boys toss to an extended two legged position, but then bring it back to prep level before extending to single leg position.  I believe this is where the judges bumped them down to a 7 DOD.  According to the rubric, the boys must go straight up to an extended single leg position, OR to an extended two legged position, then pull the single leg position WITHOUT dropping down to prep level first. 

If this is the case, then it makes everything makes sense because all three teams would be at a 7 level DOD in partner stunts.  I still think McIntosh nailed their routine, but this makes the running a lot closer.  As others have previously stated, WB came to win and it was obvious.  Hats off to Chestatee as well for an awesomely creative, fun, and really well choreographed routine.  Their pyramid is one of my favorites of all the routines.  This is one area where the judges made a good call regarding DOD.  Not sure where they were for the other divisions.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm thinking.

Offline Iluvcheer

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 12:20:07 PM »
Cheeratl, you are INCORRECT on your interpretation of the coed secondary partner stunt requirements. The rubric indicates to receive the 8 DOD on secondary partner stunts a coed team must UNASSISTED toss or walk into an extended stunt, THEN go to an extended single leg stunt either from the half or extended level.  From what I have seen and heard McIntosh received the 8 DOD all year, including their state partner stunt score.  However, other teams were overscored on their partner stunt and tumbling DOD scores.   Unfortunately the scores and placement were a result of the judge(s) mistake(s).  The DOD score is not the judges' opinion, the execution(to a certain point) is a matter of the judges opinion.   Winder, McIntosh, and Chestatee all executed great routines their coaches and teams should be proud of.  In is not Winder's fault they won after a tie due to a judge's mistake on DOD scores.  Winder's score was not possible if their DOD was scored correctly.  Math is Math! The correct DOD numbers do not add up to their total scores. I am happy for Winder's cheerleaders and coaches, they performed very well.  It is just very unfortunate for other teams like Chestatee and McIntosh who had higher DOD and also executed solid routines.  The results are the results. Hopefully the judges will receive better training, one can only hope!

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 12:51:27 PM »
Agree 100% with iluvcheer
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

Offline CheerDude

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 02:29:24 PM »
CheerATL - No, the boys can walk in/toss (unassisted) to a two-leg extended position and then bump it to a single leg extension (unassisted) from either hands/prep/half level or pull the single leg skill from the extension already. It doesn't matter which.
This is why we need the wording re-done in the rubric, so many coaches and unfortunately some judges misinterpret the rubric and give inaccurate DODs.
I know without a doubt if scores could be challenged at State and have them corrected by the more knowledgeable judges, scores and placements will definitely not be the same. And I feel like we should implement this system. Especially for State where it actually matters and where it actually NEEDS to be 100% accurate. It may be a while for awards time for everyone but the wait will be worth it.

Offline Iluvcheer

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 03:10:54 PM »
Cheerdude I agree 100%

Offline Cheermom

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 03:16:58 PM »
Agreed as well.

Another point... if the other judges scores were brought into the mix for the tie-breaker the right thing to do would have been to include all judges scores for the rest of the division to determine the winner based on a level playing ground.  I understand that this is not how the rules were written this year but it seems like it would have been the more fair way to see which team the judges truely favored with the highest and lowest scores, at least in the future.

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 03:18:43 PM »
If that would have happened.  Chestatee would have been named winner.
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Offline Iluvcheer

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 03:20:42 PM »
The high and the low should be dropped.  This to help with accuracy if a judge is way off base.

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 03:24:21 PM »
The high and the low should be dropped.  This to help with accuracy if a judge is way off base.

Per GHSA this is exactly why the do this.  Which is why it boiled down to just being between Winder and McIntosh because the others were not involved in a tie.  Bottom lie...Judges messed this division up....Unfortunately.
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Offline Cheerinolympics

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 08:46:51 PM »
I will start by saying this is a rumor and if anyone can verify then please do. I have heard that GHSA is reviewing the final Coed scores due to the overwhelming response from coaches and other judges. I have heard that they contacted McIntosh and told them they should have actually won and Chestatee was in second and Winder was in third!  I don't know what this will change because it is not like they can take the trophy away from Winder. This is a really bad situation that shows that there are many flaws with the judging at State.  Also, on a side note does anyone else feel that the event has out grown the location!

Offline Cheerknowledge

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Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 08:57:47 PM »
I think the event is ok in Columbus.  It can move for sure but the only other feasible location to me seems like Atlanta.  That can be a mess trying to get around in that town.  Plus what facility would you use?  I like the setup honestly of the civic center.  You could probably replicate this at the Phillips Arena ($$$$$) or Gwinnett Arena.  But I feel Gwinnett is too far north.  Macon to me is off limits.  Too beat up.  The columbus area is good to GHSA and works with them well to make this event run.

I wouldn't be suprised if there was a private conversation but reviewing the scores and changing the outcome will be off limits.

Winder is your 2014 State Champion.  I don't think you will see any other name next to that date.
-This post is purely the opinion of Cheerknowledge and that of no one else and is not by any means influenced by any one person, team, or location.

 

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