Ga Cheerleading Vent

General Sports Discussions => General Discussion For All Sports Categories => Topic started by: Cheerknowledge on November 12, 2014, 12:03:41 AM

Title: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 12, 2014, 12:03:41 AM
Please post results here ASAP!!  Feel free to discuss possible outcomes or thoughts as well.  GOOD LUCK to all teams!  Team schedules will be filled in once sectionals are complete.

Schedule (https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/cheerleading/2014_GHSA_State_Cheerleading_Completed_Schedule.pdf)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerinolympics on November 16, 2014, 09:12:10 AM
Winder Barrow first, McIntosh second, and Chestatee third.  Winder and McIntosh scored the same so the high score came in and settled the tie. Chestatee was a point behind although if you look at the results before the high and low scores dropped then Chestatee was ahead by two points.  Cheerknowledge so much for only the Rubric! Chestatee would have started with a 3 point deficit and Winder Barrow would have started with a six point deficit.  They have mostly assisted one mans.  McIntosh through a clean routine, actually better than last week, but still lost.  It basically boils down to the rubric is only part of the solution! I will say Winder Barrow faced a lot of trials and tribulations through out the year and did come to state to win. Congrats!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 16, 2014, 04:21:28 PM
Apparently the rubric was thrown out the window in this division.

Hat's off to Winder for taking home a state championship and from an athlete standpoint, their sweat and work paid off.  Can't take that away from them.

However, the judges and the system seemed off on this one.  McIntosh was so good and hit so goo that I can only imagine the only place they got taken off was the bottom but even then, how do you take away there.  I expected their scores to be in the 97 and above range.  Clearly not.  but Winder and Chestatee shouldn't have been "technically" able to touch McIntosh's routine with McIntosh hitting.  I cant find an answer to this.  You can't argue energy here or them or how cute their routine was in comparison because that shouldn't effect the execution scores.  Showmanship-I felt all three teams got 3 here.  It's just hard to break down.  Scratching my head honestly.  I thought it would for sure be between chestatee and mcIntosh but Winder brought some game to the mat as well. 

THIS ONE IS A SHOCKER.  POINT BLANK.  Sorry-I rarely like to say I disagree with the outcome, but just not seeing it here.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: gacheermom on November 17, 2014, 07:49:02 AM
I too was shocked by this result.  I thought McIntosh was the winner.  It's really hard to understand but when subjectivity is part of the equation....things like this happen.  That's one of the things I hate about cheerleading - it most always comes down to what a judge thinks of your performance not entirely up to what you do or don't do.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: cheeratl on November 17, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
I was shocked too. McIntosh hit that routine without question.  However, I had heard that McIntosh was the only team that maxed out on DOD since they have 4 stunt groups and Chestatee and WB only put up 3.  I don't think that is the case.  I went back and looked at their region routine.  For the McIntosh coed secondary stunts, the boys toss to an extended two legged position, but then bring it back to prep level before extending to single leg position.  I believe this is where the judges bumped them down to a 7 DOD.  According to the rubric, the boys must go straight up to an extended single leg position, OR to an extended two legged position, then pull the single leg position WITHOUT dropping down to prep level first. 

If this is the case, then it makes everything makes sense because all three teams would be at a 7 level DOD in partner stunts.  I still think McIntosh nailed their routine, but this makes the running a lot closer.  As others have previously stated, WB came to win and it was obvious.  Hats off to Chestatee as well for an awesomely creative, fun, and really well choreographed routine.  Their pyramid is one of my favorites of all the routines.  This is one area where the judges made a good call regarding DOD.  Not sure where they were for the other divisions.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Iluvcheer on November 17, 2014, 12:20:07 PM
Cheeratl, you are INCORRECT on your interpretation of the coed secondary partner stunt requirements. The rubric indicates to receive the 8 DOD on secondary partner stunts a coed team must UNASSISTED toss or walk into an extended stunt, THEN go to an extended single leg stunt either from the half or extended level.  From what I have seen and heard McIntosh received the 8 DOD all year, including their state partner stunt score.  However, other teams were overscored on their partner stunt and tumbling DOD scores.   Unfortunately the scores and placement were a result of the judge(s) mistake(s).  The DOD score is not the judges' opinion, the execution(to a certain point) is a matter of the judges opinion.   Winder, McIntosh, and Chestatee all executed great routines their coaches and teams should be proud of.  In is not Winder's fault they won after a tie due to a judge's mistake on DOD scores.  Winder's score was not possible if their DOD was scored correctly.  Math is Math! The correct DOD numbers do not add up to their total scores. I am happy for Winder's cheerleaders and coaches, they performed very well.  It is just very unfortunate for other teams like Chestatee and McIntosh who had higher DOD and also executed solid routines.  The results are the results. Hopefully the judges will receive better training, one can only hope!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 12:51:27 PM
Agree 100% with iluvcheer
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: CheerDude on November 17, 2014, 02:29:24 PM
CheerATL - No, the boys can walk in/toss (unassisted) to a two-leg extended position and then bump it to a single leg extension (unassisted) from either hands/prep/half level or pull the single leg skill from the extension already. It doesn't matter which.
This is why we need the wording re-done in the rubric, so many coaches and unfortunately some judges misinterpret the rubric and give inaccurate DODs.
I know without a doubt if scores could be challenged at State and have them corrected by the more knowledgeable judges, scores and placements will definitely not be the same. And I feel like we should implement this system. Especially for State where it actually matters and where it actually NEEDS to be 100% accurate. It may be a while for awards time for everyone but the wait will be worth it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Iluvcheer on November 17, 2014, 03:10:54 PM
Cheerdude I agree 100%
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 17, 2014, 03:16:58 PM
Agreed as well.

Another point... if the other judges scores were brought into the mix for the tie-breaker the right thing to do would have been to include all judges scores for the rest of the division to determine the winner based on a level playing ground.  I understand that this is not how the rules were written this year but it seems like it would have been the more fair way to see which team the judges truely favored with the highest and lowest scores, at least in the future.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 03:18:43 PM
If that would have happened.  Chestatee would have been named winner.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Iluvcheer on November 17, 2014, 03:20:42 PM
The high and the low should be dropped.  This to help with accuracy if a judge is way off base.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 03:24:21 PM
The high and the low should be dropped.  This to help with accuracy if a judge is way off base.

Per GHSA this is exactly why the do this.  Which is why it boiled down to just being between Winder and McIntosh because the others were not involved in a tie.  Bottom lie...Judges messed this division up....Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerinolympics on November 17, 2014, 08:46:51 PM
I will start by saying this is a rumor and if anyone can verify then please do. I have heard that GHSA is reviewing the final Coed scores due to the overwhelming response from coaches and other judges. I have heard that they contacted McIntosh and told them they should have actually won and Chestatee was in second and Winder was in third!  I don't know what this will change because it is not like they can take the trophy away from Winder. This is a really bad situation that shows that there are many flaws with the judging at State.  Also, on a side note does anyone else feel that the event has out grown the location!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 08:57:47 PM
I think the event is ok in Columbus.  It can move for sure but the only other feasible location to me seems like Atlanta.  That can be a mess trying to get around in that town.  Plus what facility would you use?  I like the setup honestly of the civic center.  You could probably replicate this at the Phillips Arena ($$$$$) or Gwinnett Arena.  But I feel Gwinnett is too far north.  Macon to me is off limits.  Too beat up.  The columbus area is good to GHSA and works with them well to make this event run.

I wouldn't be suprised if there was a private conversation but reviewing the scores and changing the outcome will be off limits.

Winder is your 2014 State Champion.  I don't think you will see any other name next to that date.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 08:43:25 AM
Yes the rumor is true that GHSA officials have contacted McIntosh.  McIntosh is first, Chestatee is second, and Winder Barrow is third.  Incorrect DOD scores were given.  However I believe this is more of an apology and not a change to the outcome of State.  It's unfair all around but I don't see how you could take it away from Winder Barrow since they were named the official winners right or wrong.  It is what it is but at least GHSA is attempting to handle it the best way they can (after the fact).  Assuming there will be big changes for next year so they can protect their integrity (GHSA). 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 08:45:56 AM
Sorry...I just couldn't put a ring on my finger knowing it wasn't the correct outcome.  That is just me though.  What do you say "oh yeah, we got this, even though they messed it up, we won" Soooooooo, you really didn't win did you?

I mean, to set it right, I really feel they should recognize the mistakes, and award at least a co-champion.  Don't take it away but recognize them as co-champions.  This should be the same in other divisions where there was an apparent mistake.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 08:55:40 AM
I like your idea... announce co-champions.  That would be the best outcome for everyone.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 09:22:06 AM
That would be the best thing they can do I agree! My baby girl is so depressed that she doesn't even want to go to school. Some girls broke down at school yesterday when someone said "maybe next year"! How did McIntosh get the results changed? Someone help me out!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
That would be the best thing they can do I agree! My baby girl is so depressed that she doesn't even want to go to school. Some girls broke down at school yesterday when someone said "maybe next year"! How did McIntosh get the results changed? Someone help me out!

McIntosh didn't get results changed.  There is a major discrepancy in the story.  Simply put, McIntosh was told there was an error in judging and they were sorry.  They are hoping to correct some of these issues moving forward.  However, the results will stand.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 09:28:37 AM
I don't know that GHSA will officially change the scores... I believe it was more of an apology and them admitting that they got it wrong.  It is a fact that the DOD portion is pretty black and white and it's not really so much a judgement call on that portion.... you simply cannot earn max points if you aren't throwing the skills.  And yes... it's devastated these kids who devote so much of their youth to this sport.  Losing fair and square is disappointing but understandable but this is totally different.  And... for a senior who won't ever get that second chance it's really sad.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:15:33 AM
McIntosh scores have been changed, or shall I say corrected. @McIntoshTrail is the official page on twitter declaring 1st place publicly. Twitter is lit with the same statement. If you all have not seen the AAA thread on here, you might want to take a look. The same thing happened between Calhoun and Pierce.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 11:19:36 AM
That twitter feed is a student ran account.

Be careful about everything you believe :)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:24:50 AM
You ought to look at the tweets back. There is a parent of Winder-Barrow literally arguing with the student-run account. Name is @dhansenAGG...
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 11:27:32 AM
Call me old school but I've never even been on twitter and don't know how to tweet.  I wish all of those people would be respectful to each other though.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:30:10 AM
Agree 100% HOWEVER, a parent should not mess with a child which does not belong to them.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 11:32:09 AM
Agreed CheerNazi.  Very immature.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: Cheerymom on November 18, 2014, 01:06:35 PM
extremely sad for the Seniors.....very unfortunate
please GHSA make this right!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - CoEd
Post by: UPro Media on November 18, 2014, 05:10:40 PM
Wow, these are some very interesting posts.  Winder is the State Coed Champions for 2014.  That will not change.  I would love to see video review become a real option for GHSA Cheerleading.  I would also love to see a coaches challenge added.  This challenge would not be for the placement of any teams, however for the dod, scoring, and deductions.  In order for this to work, these scores would need to be viewable immediatly as the judges are scoring.  This would add a new dynamic to the sport that could be exciting.
As for Columbus, I  hate that as I watch, every judge, music person, and official is wearing a jacket, sweater, or some type of warm clothing.  The cheerleaders cannot dress for the cold environment of the Columbus arena and its cold nature.  For this reason, The State Championship should be moved to a place that is more accommodating for the athletes that will perform there.