Ga Cheerleading Vent

General Sports Discussions => General Discussion For All Sports Categories => Topic started by: Cheerknowledge on November 11, 2014, 11:59:24 PM

Title: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 11, 2014, 11:59:24 PM
Please post results here ASAP!!  Feel free to discuss possible outcomes or thoughts as well.  GOOD LUCK to all teams!  Team schedules will be filled in once sectionals are complete.

Schedule (https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/cheerleading/2014_GHSA_State_Cheerleading_Completed_Schedule.pdf)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 15, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
3 words. Pierce was robbed!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerDawg on November 15, 2014, 01:34:35 PM
1 point difference.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Gacheermom74 on November 15, 2014, 02:00:24 PM
Pierce maxed out plus some with all of their fulls and stuck their stunts. Not sure how Calhoun won except by reputation.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 15, 2014, 05:10:51 PM
I'm not one to usually post, but I thought I needed to "vent" so to speak. I was entirely blown away by the judges decision regarding the 3A decision. And shame on the judges!  It is quite obvious you guys missed this one. I think the entire arena was shocked, except for the winner of course. I just can't quite grasp the fact that a  team which had no falls,bobbles, or obvious mistakes would have to settle for runner-up.  The runner-up maxed out in all areas! I don't know if it is the Calhoun name, crowd, or any other influence but the judges made a debacle out  of this one. I guess they didn't want Pierce to take home a 3rd State Championship. What would it have taken to win? Surely not a better routine, they stuck it. I guess we will never know the answer.Or wait , maybe different judges? It may sound like sour grapes but the funny thing is, I'm not even a Pierce supporter. A couple of counties over.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 16, 2014, 01:11:46 PM
I'm not one to usually post, but I thought I needed to "vent" so to speak. I was entirely blown away by the judges decision regarding the 3A decision. And shame on the judges!  It is quite obvious you guys missed this one. I think the entire arena was shocked, except for the winner of course. I just can't quite grasp the fact that a  team which had no falls,bobbles, or obvious mistakes would have to settle for runner-up.  The runner-up maxed out in all areas! I don't know if it is the Calhoun name, crowd, or any other influence but the judges made a debacle out  of this one. I guess they didn't want Pierce to take home a 3rd State Championship. What would it have taken to win? Surely not a better routine, they stuck it. I guess we will never know the answer.Or wait , maybe different judges? It may sound like sour grapes but the funny thing is, I'm not even a Pierce supporter. A couple of counties over.
.    Couldn't agree more!!! I wouldn't even want a State Championship trophy that I didn't deserve and if it had of went to the best team who performed the best it would have def went to Pierce. I am not even from the southern region and do not even know anything about them but I know they were robbed!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 16, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Does anyone have a video of pierce and Calhoun? I would love to see it!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheer2013 on November 16, 2014, 02:56:28 PM
I'm not one to usually post, but I thought I needed to "vent" so to speak. I was entirely blown away by the judges decision regarding the 3A decision. And shame on the judges!  It is quite obvious you guys missed this one. I think the entire arena was shocked, except for the winner of course. I just can't quite grasp the fact that a  team which had no falls,bobbles, or obvious mistakes would have to settle for runner-up.  The runner-up maxed out in all areas! I don't know if it is the Calhoun name, crowd, or any other influence but the judges made a debacle out  of this one. I guess they didn't want Pierce to take home a 3rd State Championship. What would it have taken to win? Surely not a better routine, they stuck it. I guess we will never know the answer.Or wait , maybe different judges? It may sound like sour grapes but the funny thing is, I'm not even a Pierce supporter. A couple of counties over.
[/quote
I have to say I agree, I was completely shocked.  Not taking  anything away from Calhoun, but Pierce County was Amazing!! I was certain they would win.  I'm not affiliated with Pierce County in any way, just an outside opinion.  Congrats to all the winners, just shows you never know what the outcome will be, guess the judges saw something I didn't see.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 16, 2014, 04:13:26 PM
Don't both teams max out?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 16, 2014, 04:19:26 PM
No, Calhoun did not have DOD in standing tumbling. However that would only give pierce a 3 point advantage.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 16, 2014, 04:22:15 PM
No, Calhoun did not have DOD in standing tumbling. However that would only give pierce a 3 point advantage.

Interesting.  Who went first between the two?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 16, 2014, 04:23:25 PM
Calhoun was before intermission and Pierce was after.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 16, 2014, 04:26:13 PM
EVEN MORE INTERESTING

Ok....would need to get my hands on the video of both to really break this one down.  I can't really remember much between the two except for the fact both were pretty solid.  So as of now, I have no opinion and Either team could have been winners.  I know their is a lot of fan support for pierce, bu the rubric puts all teams on an even playing field and then execution comes into play.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 16, 2014, 04:30:33 PM
Agreed! I do remember both teams having slight execution problems in the partner stunt. Pierce definitely out tumbles Calhoun, but as the remainder of the routine goes, I would have to see it again. You would think that the team that maxes in all areas would have the advantage. Once again this is the main problem I have with cheer. DOD is not an opinion and can be scored correctly, but execution is based solely on human opinion which can sometimes be biased unintentionally!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 16, 2014, 04:34:08 PM
Yes....Agreed.  However, human opinion will always exist in a judged sport.  The hope is the judges are qualified and skilled enough to make a good call.  I think as fans and coaches, there is little trust in the GHSA judges which doesn't bode well in their favor.  It's always hard for them to make the right call.  At this point, I can see where Calhoun and Pierce could have won the title.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 16, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
Pierce absolutely maxed in all areas plus beyond what is expected. It's sad if the competition was rigged, because it took a title away from a group of 16 girls that rightfully deserved it. Pierce is only losing 3 girls next year and they expect nothing but 1st next year, and they will bring it to the mat just like they did this year. Beware
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerDawg on November 16, 2014, 08:55:59 PM
I would definitely beware.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: JCJacket on November 16, 2014, 10:56:43 PM
Ok I wasn't going to post but here goes....my daughter is on Calhoun High School cheer team - Our girls put all they had on the mat Saturday they rose to the occasion and performed to the best of their ability which then gave them an opportunity to win.  Pierce also came out and hit an amazing routine and gave themselves the opportunity to win at this point both teams did all they could! I could have seen the outcome go either way! But there is always a winner and this time it just happened to be Calhoun. (By 1point) I don't feel the judging was out of line.  Out of the 3 times we have gone against Pierce county once in 2011 and twice this year we,Calhoun, has only beaten Pierce this one time. To me, this was what a State championship is all about...I think Pierce is a fantastic team and I think they motivated our girls to be the best they could be.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 05:31:28 AM
Again, would love to see video of both to give my feeling but have to agree.  IF both teams hit, cant argue the winner here.  I can't even say that it is rigged.  Not willing to take a side yet on this.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 06:36:54 AM
It is all about maxing out the score sheet people. Pierce did. Calhoun did not. Therefore how can you say either could have won when both hit? How can a team that didn't have DOD beat a team that did when both hit everything? It's not right. It's not fair. If my kid was on Pierce I would never let it go!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 17, 2014, 07:16:44 AM
Everyone understands pierce should've won. It'll feul there fire to come back next year, and they won't take second especially when they don't deserve. Both teams were good but pierce was GREAT there wasn't a comparison between the two.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 08:43:21 AM
Same thing happened in other divisions. The difference is only 3 points.  If the scores were not in the high 290s then apparently the judges saw execution flaws. 3 points can easily be overcome.  I'm not saying the placings were right or wrong, would like to see the routines first.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 09:09:15 AM
I don't normally do this, but my daughter is one of the Pierce cheerleaders, and I find it necessary to comment. If anyone were to watch both videos, it would be 100% clear Pierce was the winner. Calhoun had a touch on a tuck and a flyer somewhat lost her foot. Pierce had a clean routine and maxed out on everything. Don't know if it was favoritism, or a miscalculation of the scores, but something went wrong.  Everyone knows it including Calhoun. They can watch their video next to ours and see what the true result should have been. The whole stadium knew it, cheerleaders who are not even remotely associated with Pierce knew it, random parents knew it and coaches from other teams were saying it as well. The fact that one of the Calhoun cheerleaders was extremely rude when my daughter congratulated her just took the cake. Whether there's anything that can be done remains to be seen, but everyone knows what the outcome should have been and who truly should have left with the 1st place trophy. Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 09:22:22 AM
videos anywhere?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 09:46:18 AM
You may be able to find it on twitter or Facebook. It's definitely on Facebook. Don't know about theirs.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 10:10:01 AM
Reckon judge #1 was a bit biased? Check out the score sheet. Wow. I guess maxing out the scoresheet doesn't matter if the judges arent fair. Might as well throw some illegal All star moves in there next year Pierce. I am very sad for all of those girls and coaches. Right is right and folks....that wasn't right. Best of luck to Pierce next year! I think you will have a house full of supporters!!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 10:23:10 AM
Thank you! We truly do appreciate all the support from the host of random teams, coaches and parents. We know what the outcome should have been, as does everyone else in that stadium. It's a hollow victory for Calhoun. They know what should have happened, and I know I wouldn't feel right about receiving a title when everyone knows they didn't deserve it. I guess that's why the phrase "Life isn't fair" was created. It'll be a tarnished ring and a tarnished GHSA judging reputation.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 17, 2014, 12:07:04 PM
the win was undeserved...
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 12:07:52 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I told my husband as soon as pierce went that this one would be scary close. Pierce had the DOD advantage on standing tumbling, but I would bet my house payment than Calhoun out scored pierce on running tumbling EXE and formations and transitions. It's very easy for parents (and coaches) to get so caught up in the difficulty scores and not consider the execution or those three categories at the bottom of the scoresheet... Which in my opinion is where state championships are won. Congratulations to both teams! You did amazing Saturday!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
No way did they beat us in running tumbling. We had 3 back handspring tucks,  5 back handspring layouts, 6 fulls and a back handspring layout back handspring full. Nope! Didn't do it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
I didn't say running tumbling difficulty.. I said running tumbling execution..... Two different scores...
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 12:48:31 PM
I hate to sway to one side but "cheerjudge" has a point.  The execution score can play a huge piece.  Again, I would be able to tell so much more with video links.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 12:53:13 PM
Difficulty is out of 6 points, execution is out of 8 points.... So if you have full team fulls (6 DOD) but only get 1-2 in EXE.... Then you can mathematically be beaten by a team with only forward rolls (1 DOD) but that gets 8 in EXE.... 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 17, 2014, 12:55:36 PM
but would that be real fair to give a team that didn't work hard to gain the skill a state championship title. Pierce Countys routine was packed and very well executed.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 01:02:06 PM
They all work hard...keep that in mind.  Even Calhoun works hard. 

The issue you need to pick here is with judges...not with teams.


*Edit* - Please refrain from using the idea that Calhoun shouldn't enjoy this, or they are the "losers", or not deserving, or posts will be modified or deleted.  Think of how your child, that worked just as many hours, has no control of the event, would feel reading some of this.  Parents, because that is who mostly post on here, remember, you are the role models.  Even though you hide behind a screen name, you should know better.  Athletes, represent your school better than that.  Don't bring disgrace.  All you are doing is adding more blood to the water.  If you want to pick at something....try to pick apart judges and the rubric.  That is fine.  Back it up with evidence.  Simply calling out that "they don't deserve that" is childish.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
I didn't say I agree with the rubric... Just that I understand it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 01:18:53 PM
There is NO WAY Calhoun out tumbled Pierce in any way. Execution included. Aony one with any knowledge of cheer could plainly see that. So whatever Calhoun out scored Pierce in, it obviously could not have been tumbling or execution of....  With this being said. It's over. It was a bad call. Neither team could control that. Sad for Pierce but next year will hopefully be just and fair. God bless!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 01:24:05 PM
I just want a link hahahahaha

No seriously though, it really could have been a little bit here and there.  How much was it again?  One point? 

Does anybody know all 5 judge scores for both teams?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 01:26:04 PM
It's on GHSA website
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 01:29:33 PM
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153295137380830 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153295137380830)   this is for Pierce ( I finally found it thanks to a friend of a friend hah)

Calhoun is on youtube


**EDIT** It say's content is unavailable.  Will you provide link to Calhouns?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 01:30:38 PM
So the problem I have is two judges tying them.  and then the spacing of an 88 to a 97 (for pierce)

Calhoun's looks pretty consistent so I can't argue there.  But for Pierce....why is it all over the place??

You can't argue those in the end though because they were dropped. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153295137380830   this is for Pierce ( I finally found it thanks to a friend of a friend hah)

Calhoun is on youtube

Thank you...I will wait to take a look until Pierce pops up because it won't do me any good until I can see both :)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 01:37:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05Jvd50SiA&feature=player_detailpage
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 01:41:48 PM
Calhoun's is a much clearer video but you can clearly see the routine of both teams...please give your opinion! :)

and yes the high/low were dropped...but how convenient was that? lets be honest...

how can one team have consistent scoring and one be so inconsistent? hmmmmm
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 01:44:45 PM
Calhoun's is a much clearer video but you can clearly see the routine of both teams...please give your opinion! :)

Pierce's video does not work.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Notachance on November 17, 2014, 02:08:58 PM
Judge 1 - 92 to 88 Calhoun
Judge 2 - 93 to 93
Judge 3 - 95 to 97 Pierce
Judge 4 - 90 to 91 Pierce
Judge 5 - 92 to 92

Now explain how one judge watched a completely different competition that the rest of the panel.  Not by a small margin either.  This judge had a bias and there is no question she was not watching the same completion as the other judges.  ANY QUESTIONS!!!! 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Notachance on November 17, 2014, 02:12:17 PM
Also I forgot to mention that out of top 15 teams this judge was not the low score on the panel for any team except PIERCE.  WELL WELL!!!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Notachance on November 17, 2014, 02:18:40 PM
The facts I guess are a conversation stopper!!!!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 02:19:15 PM
two out of 3 judges that had different scores though pierce was winner too.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 02:23:48 PM
maybe someone from pierce will post a video if they have it
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 02:24:00 PM
I have three statements and the I am done with this topic:

1. If you add the high and the low back in you get the same result... Calhoun wins by one point.
2. Pierce low judge is from middle to south Ga and their high score was the only north Georgia judge on the panel. So I do not feel there was bias.
3. While high 270's is a great score, there is still 20 something points neither team got so obviously there were some execution problems or we would be looking at scores in the high 290's.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 02:27:14 PM
Sure wish I knew where all the judges were from!


Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Notachance on November 17, 2014, 02:28:27 PM
So 4 judges missed it and one genius got it right.  Is that really what you are saying?  Only one judge out of 5 even thought they won!!!  Come on don't justify an error!!!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
I have three statements and the I am done with this topic:

1. If you add the high and the low back in you get the same result... Calhoun wins by one point.
2. Pierce low judge is from middle to south Ga and their high score was the only north Georgia judge on the panel. So I do not feel there was bias.
3. While high 270's is a great score, there is still 20 something points neither team got so obviously there were some execution problems or we would be looking at scores in the high 290's.

Couple of good points here.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 02:30:46 PM
So 4 judges missed it and one genius got it right.  Is that really what you are saying?  Only one judge out of 5 even thought they won!!!  Come on don't justify an error!!!!

Good point - can't justify based on one judge
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 02:44:02 PM
NotAChance the 88 is just as far away from average as the 97 is.
That is the reason the high and low is dropped... So one judge cannot sway
The results. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 17, 2014, 02:47:48 PM
For someone to say Pierce''s execution of tumbling execution was sub-par is asinine.  I guess that's why we all are not judges but,  if there is anything Pierce excelled in during the season, it was definitely tumbling.  It's over, such a shame.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 02:48:43 PM
seriously?
 88-92 is 4 points
 95-97 is 2 points

yes I would have to say that is a bigger difference
 
no matter how you look at it there was NO WAY there was a 4 point difference!!!!! IF YOU WERE THERE AND KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CHEER AT ALL YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THAT
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 02:50:23 PM
For someone to say Pierce''s execution of tumbling execution was sub-par is asinine.  I guess that's why we all are not judges but,  if there is anything Pierce excelled in during the season, it was definitely tumbling.  It's over, such a shame.

AGREE 100%
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 03:03:50 PM
Will someone from pierce release a video??  I mean if we are so confident it is a winner.  I just want a link! hahaha sorry-surely it is floating :)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 17, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
Watched Calhoun and only 12 girls did the running tumbling. 14 have to tumble to get the max DOD. I missed this at state. Two girls do an aerial and unless I missed something you have to do at least a round off backhand spring tuck to be counted. Did I miss something? With that being the case Pierce would have had a 6 point advantage!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 03:58:32 PM
Cheer knowledge is VERY knowledgeable!!!! Thanks!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 04:16:31 PM
Cheer knowledge is VERY knowledgeable!!!! Thanks!

Apparently my post got the board REAL QUIET hahahahaa OOPS
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Notachance on November 17, 2014, 04:30:32 PM
Cheerknowledge - I think you just said what alot have been saying.  The judging was just flat wrong.  When you see the PC video you will see the DOD was higher for PC and execution was as good if not better.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 04:31:04 PM
Cheerknowledge - I think you just said what alot have been saying.  The judging was just flat wrong.  When you see the PC video you will see the DOD was higher for PC and execution was as good if not better.

Would love to see!!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 04:51:21 PM
Can anything be done to contest the scores? Hmmm wonder if so what the time limit is. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 05:05:08 PM
GHSA counts Arials as advance tumbling and a Full ups where the to spins 360 degrees and the bases do not move receives credit.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: OnThisDayIseeClearly on November 17, 2014, 05:05:51 PM
Can anything be done to contest the scores? Hmmm wonder if so what the time limit is. 

There is no appeal of cheer scores.  Judges decisions are final.  Per GHDA rules.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerub on November 17, 2014, 05:07:53 PM
Unfortunately I don't think there's anything that can be done. There's the statement in all coaching and judging info that says "the judges' decision is final" so I wouldn't look for anything to be done about it. Think about ALL the times when there have been scoring errors; teams have been awarded points for things they didn't do, or have maxed out when they didn't have all groups doing required elements. This is just one more example of how erroneous the judging can actually be. As much as judges make each competition (and that is highway robbery if you know the amount!!!!!!!!), there simply MUST be some accountability on their part so that this does not continue to happen at invitationals and especially not at state.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 17, 2014, 05:08:13 PM
*top
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: sj0629 on November 17, 2014, 05:42:36 PM
I agree with you completely...  I was there and saw 1st hand the reaction to the results.   You could have heard a pin drop when they announced 2nd place PC Bears.  When they announced 1st place, the only cheers came from the winners side.  What does that tell you?  To me, Calhoun did not beat PC Bears, judge #1 did!
Shame on you judge #1!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 17, 2014, 06:00:40 PM
I have never heard of an aerial being considered advanced tumbling. Where did you get that information? It is nowhere on the rubric. An aerial is considered an entry into tumbling that must end in a tuck or higher.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
AN ARIEL IS NOT ADVANCED TUMBLING
Title: Update to my most recent post
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 06:44:08 PM
I had to go back and look because I myself was wrong and in all fairness I need to adjust.  It still doesn't change my personal decision but does make things a little closer. Sorry.

Couple of things to note on Calhouns Routine based off of video.  They do not max on Standing Tumbling. 5 at bestThey do not max on running tumbling. 5 at bestThis would bring them down a total of 6 points making the highest score achievable a 294 (3 98's being perfect).They had a very bad bobble on a stunt in the back right which threw the sequence off.  Their jumps (based off of video had some timing issues). 


So thinking of this - a 294 would have been a 100% error free perfect routine.  Anybody watching the video would agree their routine was not perfection.  So I would have probably given them at best 3 7's on the jumps.  That would be 3 more points down to 291.  I think their stunts were at best 8's considering the full downs were off, bad pull and body positions, as well as feet very apart on fake ups.  This would be 6 more points to where they would be at a 285 (for me).  Standing tumbling the entire front left was off from the right and back (caught this the first time).  I would probably give 7's to be fair here.  That would be down to a 282.  I would have give execution on running tumbling a mix of 7's and maybe 8's.  So lets say 2 7's and an 8.  That would be down to a 280.  Pyramid I would have given them 9's across the board so that would have been dead on a 279.Cheer was AMAZING.  Baskets were very timed.  Pyramid and dance were good. 

Going back against my original post because my math was incorrect.  It would not have dropped them down to a 282.  Don't line up the firing squad on me here.  Simple mistake but I am noting I was off.


I would really like to see Pierce's now.


Overall score from Cheerknowledge was a 279 for Calhoun (what the judges got).


Sorry for the earlier stir up.  Mathematically, their score is achievable. :-X
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 06:55:47 PM
Nothing can be done and no placements will be reversed. Decisions are final.  The only thing I have ever heard them do is offer an apology to the schools.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 17, 2014, 07:12:30 PM
I think it is safe to say that everyone vented and got things off their chest. Now it is time to move on to next year and start fresh and new! I think next year can't get here soon enough for some teams in all divisions. I would still like to see the video of Pierce. I noticed that the link was Facebook so maybe they could upload it to YouTube and then put on here.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 07:14:57 PM
Would agree....I would think some other teams are biting at the bit to get started.  Wonder who those teams are :)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 07:24:32 PM
http://youtu.be/UnmqB_Zqd1Y
Getting this was an act of congress!!! Here Ya go!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 07:25:26 PM
Pierce routine is now on youtube! Check it out!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 07:30:57 PM
Yay Yay Yay Cheerymom with the clutch find!!  Will post my thoughts here soon!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 17, 2014, 07:32:14 PM
Trying to load a better quality video, website not working here correctly. Reverting to youtube where I will then share the link...
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 17, 2014, 07:48:59 PM
Does anyone know if their has ever been any discussion regarding bringing in neutral judges for state championships? Maybe from out of state? This would definitely alleviate the potential bias from any judge from south, middle, northern Georgia? I have heard there are 3 judges all from Ware County who quite often judge competitions around southern Georgia. Even one's in Ware County. A little disturbing I would think. These don't even compare with state but,my point being neutral judges out of state would DEFINITELY carry less potential for bias. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 07:56:00 PM
I believe every State Championship SHOULD be judged by judges in other states. It would definitely work better.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 08:24:40 PM
It won't happen due to the rights GHSA has over their own sports.  It takes an act of congress to compete outside the state much less have other people come in and judge just doesn't look right on paper to GHSA.  They entrust the person in charge of cheerleading to train and have competent judges.  That is part of their duty.  Many of the states that surround us go to state level competitions that are hosted by cheerleading companies.  Not invitationals, then region, then state.  Many will compete at a "UCA or NCA" regional tournament then compete at a State "UCA or NCA" event.  From there, it is nationals.  Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee all do this.  Other companies also have state events. 

I just don't see it happening with outside judges.  It would mean the system is broke.  Everything relies on the backbone of the officials and the governing body of the sport.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 17, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
It's been an hour Cheerknowledge...lets have it.  ;)
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 08:34:48 PM
I'm dying to know! Everyone else too!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 17, 2014, 08:38:07 PM
I see your point. According to many on this board, there seems to be problems with the system. It may not be broke, but it is sputtering. I am sure the GHSA would disagree for sure. Again, just seems a little problematic. I do have a problem with judges partaking in competitions in their home towns, or former home towns. To specify, I think one of the Southern Georgia  judges actually was a Ware County cheer coach at one time. Did I say problematic? For Sure! Definitely hear the sputters.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 08:44:29 PM
Here are my thoughts on Peirces routine:

First of all Pierce Max's all parts of the scoresheet.  This would start them off at the perfect 300 before even beginning their scoresheet.

Standing I would probably have given them a couple of 7's and 8's.  Mainly due to the formation.  It looks weird on my eyes and it's hard to see the true synch.  So that would leave us lets say around a 298.  Standing tucks were very nice but it doesn't hurt you or help you because you have already done a required element.  Standing tucks were much nicer and cleaner IMO but I have to judge all standing tumbling.

Their stunts were fairly good.  The far left stunt had some issues and then their was a timing problem on the far right stunt on a body position release and the right hand basket was executed a little off to me.  Nice going though on the ball kick full.  I would have personally given this an 8 at best with maybe a 7 seen from a judge or two.  So let's say 8's and that brings us down to a 292. 

I have no problems with their running.  I could see how maybe one judge would give a 7 because the layouts make it seem like a blur and because they ripple it makes it tough to guess the execution.  So lets say overall 1 point here.  one 7 and 2 8's.  That would give us a 291.

Jumps-I personally wasn't a huge fan here.  Don't kill me please!  The double nine is a very tough jump but that makes it harder to execute, followed by a pike is tough as well, then ending with a toe touch.  I would have like to seen that sequence stop a little sharper after the toe touch rather than almost land and immediately move.  I would have most likely given a 6 personally but could have seen where their might have been some 7's.  But for the sake of it being state.  Let's go with 2 7's and a 6.  That brings us to a 288.  (with maybe 2 more points less)

Cheer was good. I have no problem here.  5's most likely across the board but since the jump was in there as well and I wasn't a huge fan of the jumps, I might have been inclined to see a 4 somewhere.  So let's say at least a point.  that would bring us down to a 287 (at lowest a 285).

Pyramid satisfied the requirements.  Two small little bobbles but not anywhere close enough to bring me down lower than a 9.  So 3 points at best off the total score.  284 is what is left going into the dance.  (at lowest a 282). 

Dance was solid.  No issues for me.  Energetic and fun.  8's across the board. 

I didn't see any issues with showmanship, creativity, or formations and transitions.  So I assume these are 3's across the board.

I end with having Pierce at a 284 (at lowest a 282 maybe a 281 adding in another 6 for jumps instead of 2 7's).

This would be in comparison to Calhouns 279.

However, this is just my opinion.  You can see where it is very close but in true DOD fashion, Pierce had the upper advantage.  Both were fairly close IMO on execution honestly but the points are made up on DOD.  I know this doesn't put the issue to rest and probably makes more people say "SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!!!"  But just thought I would offer my insight.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 17, 2014, 09:36:18 PM
Thanks you for your opinion! Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 09:51:06 PM
Thanks you for your opinion! Much appreciated!

No problem!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerga94 on November 17, 2014, 10:33:07 PM
Does anyone know if their has ever been any discussion regarding bringing in neutral judges for state championships? Maybe from out of state? This would definitely alleviate the potential bias from any judge from south, middle, northern Georgia? I have heard there are 3 judges all from Ware County who quite often judge competitions around southern Georgia. Even one's in Ware County. A little disturbing I would think. These don't even compare with state but,my point being neutral judges out of state would DEFINITELY carry less potential for bias. Just a thought.

THIS. i feel like every judge would have SOME sort of tie to a school. Also a big shocker to see my old coach judging it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerTime101 on November 17, 2014, 11:04:09 PM
Great job on the break down of both teams.  Only issue I see --- judges get a one shot deal --- no replay, no double checking how many did what -- no second guessing  -- score as they see it  -- energy of the routine can't be measure on a video either.  Both schools are blessed with a wonderful fan base, awesome athletes, good coaches, and a drive to win.  Thank goodness everyone was healthy and no injuries occurred.  AAA will be very interesting next year.....and don't leave out SE Bulloch, Cedartown, Pepperell, Rockmart, and  Central Carrollton.... those girls want to win too. 

Awesome job both teams.  Have a great off season.....some may still be cheering football or even basketball -- be safe!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 11:08:36 PM
Great point!


You can't which is why they always say it's possible for human error to occur.  The only thing I disagree on is that you are hired to get judging correct, not wrong.  Not much difference in execution on routine between the two (you can tell that first glance).  Which means if it really came down to it.  DOD should have been the upper advantage.  What this tells you is that judges are going off of "the warm and fuzzies" of a routine rather than truly judging.  Getting carried away rather than being subjective as they should be.


I think you state it great about the other teams etc. and what they have as a fan base.


I may just want to defend myself though.  I only watched Calhouns video twice and Pierces video twice.  All issues were picked up on the first go around. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerTime101 on November 17, 2014, 11:12:52 PM
No problem with your breakdowns....seemed to be pretty accurate as a whole....glad I am not a judge and just a spectator that loves the sport!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 17, 2014, 11:13:52 PM
No problem with your breakdowns....seemed to be pretty accurate as a whole....glad I am not a judge and just a spectator that loves the sport!

You gotta point there.  With the way everything stands right now...their work is pretty tarnished.  wouldn't want to do that either.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: OnThisDayIseeClearly on November 18, 2014, 02:03:42 AM
It won't happen due to the rights GHSA has over their own sports.  It takes an act of congress to compete outside the state much less have other people come in and judge just doesn't look right on paper to GHSA.  They entrust the person in charge of cheerleading to train and have competent judges.  That is part of their duty.  Many of the states that surround us go to state level competitions that are hosted by cheerleading companies.  Not invitationals, then region, then state.  Many will compete at a "UCA or NCA" regional tournament then compete at a State "UCA or NCA" event.  From there, it is nationals.  Alabama, Florida, and Tennessee all do this.  Other companies also have state events. 

I just don't see it happening with outside judges.  It would mean the system is broke.  Everything relies on the backbone of the officials and the governing body of the sport.

But isn't the system broke, or at least near disrepair?  I saw your post in another division (either 6A or Co-Ed where there seemed to be controversy over the judging.)  There's this controversy.  Look at AA.  One year, Pepprell finished third dropping two stunts and having their pyramid fall part.  Screven County finished fifth with a deduction for something their fans claim hasn't been called all year.

Armuchee won state with three stunt groups and not being able to keep all of them up.  It seems like there is a problem with some sort of bias.  That too many judges are coming from areas who are familiar with certain schools (primarily North GA schools) and are judging them differently.  I say that because you could look at past years and see some of the same comments.

You are correct the GHSA wouldn't consider using outside judges.  Because the powers that be within that organization have a certain arrogance about them and do not wish to admit mistakes. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 18, 2014, 07:50:36 AM
It is pretty terrible imo that the team who clearly should have won were given second place. What does that tell the girls? Why try? Why give it all you got? If your not gonna be judges fairly what's the point? Wonder how it would be handled it it were a football/baseball game called wrong on the state championship level???
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 08:12:00 AM
It definitely is a very tough situation and one that GHSA is looking closely at.  Coaches, athletes, and parent supporters are quickly losing their faith in the system and when it is broken, people will pack up and decide to leave.  Now, I don't think it's too far gone.  I think a couple of easy fixes can adjust the situation as a whole and really put the whole thing back on track.  I don't think it is necessarily bias.  I personally believe judges are judging off of emotion.  They are either getting too sucked in to a routine and forget they need to be looking for execution.  The music moves them and they give 7's instead of 6's and 5's.  Not sure if that makes sense.  But that is one part of the problem.  But the faith is losing.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 08:12:47 AM
OnThisDayISeeClearly - The system is hurting, not broke and not un-repairable.  But they have a big problem.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 18, 2014, 08:24:03 AM
The Faith is for sure diminishing. Especially after seeing this first hand. I wish there was something that could be done to at least admit there was a mistake. That would probably help those 16 girls tremendously. I wouldn't want to take away from Calhoun because that only hurts 16 more girls but, the winners should at least be recognized and apologized to. Again my opinion.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheermom on November 18, 2014, 08:39:40 AM
They have attempted to do something with the coed division and admitted the mistake.  Macintosh is now first, Chestatee second, and Winder Barrow third.  Now what does all that mean?  I don't think anything will change as far as the official ruling and Winder Barrow keeping their trophy and getting state rings.  However GHSA did officially admit to the DOD scoring error and rearranged the order for coed.  It's a little too little too late but the point here is that we on this "vent" were all correct in most of these divisions in saying we thought that the judging was off this State.  I think there will surely be some changes for next year which doesn't do anything for this go around but at least they are admitting it and that is something.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 08:40:25 AM
If they do it in this division, they have to do it in others.  CoEd, Possibly AAAA (illegal pyramid is the rumor), AAA, who knows where else.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 08:41:10 AM
I'm the Pierce mom and what saddens me the most is seeing my child and her teammates crying their eyes out because they knew they got the job done and should have won! They were in the stands when Calhoun went on, and we're positive they had it after we finished! We know GHSA will more than likely never admit the mistake, but an apology should be given! Obviously EVERY ONE knows the way it should have gone, but it's sad that judge #1 made the huge mistake that cost the deserving team the title!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 18, 2014, 09:03:16 AM
So, if I'm reading this correctly, the GHSA  has changed the outcome of the CoEd division due to supposed judging error ?  What happen to all results are final?  Should Pierce contest the results as well? Is it fair for one division and not another?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 18, 2014, 09:13:43 AM
So, if I'm reading this correctly, the GHSA  has changed the outcome of the CoEd division due to supposed judging error ?  What happen to all results are final?  Should Pierce contest the results as well? Is it fair for one division and not another?

It was a conversation, no results were changed.  They noted an error and apparently apologized.  Outside of that they were never told "You are the new state champions." an error was recognized simply put.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 09:36:37 AM
Honestly, I think the coaches of those teams know they won by error and should give the title to the deserving team. They've all seen this vent and know what everyone thinks. If I were a coach, I wouldn't want my team to accept a title that they know was a mistake. It would be sad to take away a title, but it's even more sad that the team that should have won didn't publicly get recognized for it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 10:03:27 AM
Is this blog doing any good? Hopefully, the right people are reading over this post and will compensate for all divisions. Every team should be judged on the same scale. GHSA should promote that.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 18, 2014, 10:29:47 AM
Co champions should definitely be brought to attention, so it wouldn't take away the "day announced" title team and the team that deserved it. All teams work hard, but I pray the right people are reading this and coming to the conclusion of what they should do about all of it.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
While I am agreeing with you completely, I feel that GHSA should admit their mistakes from Saturday and award the deserving teams immediately. To set things right, co-champions should be definitely a possibility. If I am not mistaken, I saw that Co-Ed had major issues with incorrect scoring. If you apologize to one, you must to another. New judges should be selected for next year, especially with the score Judge #1 gave. It was an obvious low-ball. Parents, coaches, and competitors are counting on the judges selected to make competent decisions with integrity and honesty.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 10:40:48 AM
McIntosh was named Co-Champion after an error in judging was found! Pierce deserves the same recognition! How did McIntosh get it changed?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 10:49:17 AM
How are you sure McIntosh's has been declared co-champions? If it is indeed fact, every division should be treated the same!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 18, 2014, 10:57:57 AM
Every division should be treated exactly the same
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 11:02:12 AM
It's on McIntosh's twitter feed, and others have said it!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:09:29 AM
Twitter is loaded with the change of decision. @McIntoshTrail is the official profile.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 11:15:21 AM
Now they have to do right by Pierce! Our girls deserved it!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:17:28 AM
I agree cheerbear. Surely GHSA realizes that!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 11:22:10 AM
I REALLY hope you're right CheerNazi!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: CheerNazi on November 18, 2014, 11:27:22 AM
I have read that WBHS will keep the title, so I am confused now. A parent from Winder-Barrow has started an confrontation with he student-run school twitter. Take a look! The guy's name is @dhansenAGG
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 11:58:08 AM
I was told they did not take away Winders title, but added McIntosh as co-champions!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 18, 2014, 12:17:40 PM
honestly if they were to pronounce anyone as co-champs it should be the team that didn't rightfully earn it, but I know either way Pierce would be extremely happy to have the title back.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 12:39:27 PM
I agree! Everyone knows Pierce should have won. Our girls just want what's rightfully theirs. Calhoun knows what the outcome should have been. Why would you want a title,  trophy and ring you knew you didn't win?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerymom on November 18, 2014, 12:47:08 PM
GHSA should right this wrong, however, I do not believe they should take away from Calhoun (and I am positive they wouldn't)...co-champions would be the answer.  Someone please help Pierce out! surely there has to someone on this board that can help....how can we have any faith in GHSA if they don't fix this?
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Queenofcheermoms on November 18, 2014, 12:51:16 PM
GHSA will not change a decision once its been made.  They have not named MHS as a co champion, the team and their parents are claiming that because they know that it should have been them due to the judges maxing out WB.  The champion will remain WB and MHS will continue to claim they should have won.  Mistakes like this have happened for years.  It is not right, but teams need to accept their loss and move on.  Nothing can be done about it.  All GHSA decisions are final. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: gobears on November 18, 2014, 12:56:28 PM
I guess its hard to accept a loss when a group of 16 girls know they were much better than the team that were given the State title. Its like saying even though you were better, we are going to give you 2nd place because we like how thisteam did there hair, ya know even though you maxed out the complete score sheet. who cares??
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 12:57:15 PM
Pierce should definitely be named co-champs! They deserved it! Obviously they figured out that there was a discrepancy between McIntosh and Winder! Disgruntled parents!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: OnThisDayIseeClearly on November 18, 2014, 02:11:01 PM
OnThisDayISeeClearly - The system is hurting, not broke and not un-repairable.  But they have a big problem.

What's the expression about the first step?  You know, admitting there's a problem.  I don't see GHSA being willing to take that first step.  That's why I think there is major trouble. 
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Gacheermom74 on November 18, 2014, 05:35:07 PM
Since 2 judges were deadlocked on their scores, 2 had Pierce win, and 1 had Calhoun win...you would think that Pierce would be the winner. Unfortunately, in this situation...it did pan out that 1 judge made a difference. If you take out Pierce's high score of 97 and its low score of 88 and take out Calhoun's high score of 95 and its low score of 92...Pierce still wins by one point. So looking at it from two different perspectives, Pierce still would win...except for the one judge. It seems to be a problem in the EXECUTION of the scoring!
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 18, 2014, 07:13:16 PM
The scores that counted:
Calhoun 92,93,92=277
Peirce 93,91,92=276

ALL Scores:
Calhoun 92,93,95,90,92=462
Peirce 88,93,97,91,92=461

Same result! Calhoun wins by one point.

I do not understand all the "one judge" comments... His score was dropped... it doesn't matter if he gave Peirce a 2 or a 91... he was dropped and it didn't count.

Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerbear on November 18, 2014, 07:47:31 PM
I guess it's just a fact of life that I have to teach my daughter that unfortunately, some people get things they don't deserve and those that deserve it get screwed.  Hollow victory for Calhoun. GHSA needs to get their stuff together next year.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerub on November 18, 2014, 10:28:06 PM
As much as I hate it for BOTH sets of teams (Pierce and Calhoun; WB and Mcintosh), this is a JUDGED sport. Any time you have judges, you run the risk of subjectivity and even human error. While we veritably don't want to even consider that mistakes would be made at this level of competition, I'm sure that there have been many instances where this has happened. We have seen it at invitationals and even at region throughout the years- it is sad for the teams that were announced as winners because now everyone becomes suspicious of the scoring. It's also sad for the teams that weren't announced as winners because of the very same reason. I don't think there is any real resolution to the situation, as an overturning of the results would definitely create more problems than it would solve. Hate it most of all for the athletes involved because each one of them feels that he/she has worked hard and deserves the title.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerga94 on November 19, 2014, 12:08:22 AM
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:34 AM
I don't think we ever said, but does anyone know what Calhoun scored for DOD in standing and running tumbling? Did the judges get that part right? I think this might put things to rest if people knew for sure.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 19, 2014, 09:24:06 AM
I don't think we ever said, but does anyone know what Calhoun scored for DOD in standing and running tumbling? Did the judges get that part right? I think this might put things to rest if people knew for sure.

I don't know for sure but it really wouldn't have mattered.  Execution is what matters.  2 points is all that would have came off the top to make each judge have a high score of 98.  However, based on the scores of the day (277 winning score), an average of 23 points were taken from Calhoun and Pierce.  It boiled down to execution.  Sure you can argue that DOD would have dropped them down to 275 if it was incorrect and Pierce would be the winner, but I think that would be more valid if the scores were in the 290's.  Clearly both teams had execution issues.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 19, 2014, 09:33:45 AM
I agree about the execution. But with the scores that were given on that day, had Calhoun been judged incorrectly in DOD it would have been the difference in who won. That is what I was trying to understand. That's also why if they scored the DOD correctly, people can put it to rest because of the execution. Three judges scores are kept. If scored the wrong DOD in both that would have been 6 points off the total score and If one was scored wrong it would be 3 points off the total score. If it was scored correctly, then execution is the determining factor.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 19, 2014, 10:53:37 AM
However, there isn't any way to tell because like I was saying, the scores are only in the upper 270's range.  With that type of score, you are not able to tell if it is incorrect DOD or execution.  No on will ever know.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 19, 2014, 01:40:28 PM
Calhoun did not max on DOD. Pierce did. Calhoun won the state championship in other areas. This is NOT a situation like coed.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 19, 2014, 01:51:20 PM
No one said it was. I don't even know that situation. Don't assume. It's a simple question that was being asked. Either answer it or don't, but don't put words into my mouth.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 19, 2014, 02:02:25 PM
You asked a question about the DOD score. I simply answered your question.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 19, 2014, 02:08:21 PM
No, I asked what did they score? I know they didn't have full DOD in either. Just curious about the actual number score. Obviously, no one will share, so it is a mute point. I think all score sheets should be released so everyone can see individual judges' scores, but I doubt that will ever happen. Thanks for the conversation, but it's time to move on to the next season.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerjudge on November 19, 2014, 02:31:42 PM
I just know DOD scores for the division because I could see the flip charts from my seat.... And the final and per judge score posted on the website. Sorry, that's all the help I can give.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: dawclean on November 19, 2014, 03:31:12 PM
I really don't think many people believe Calhoun won the State Championship in other areas, except the judges, which is what really counts. But, it really doesn't matter at this point. As someone said, time to move on to next year.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Queenofcheermoms on November 20, 2014, 12:53:38 PM
No, I asked what did they score? I know they didn't have full DOD in either. Just curious about the actual number score. Obviously, no one will share, so it is a mute point. I think all score sheets should be released so everyone can see individual judges' scores, but I doubt that will ever happen. Thanks for the conversation, but it's time to move on to the next season.

Each judge's score and the total score was posted earlier in this thread.  Plus they are available on twitter under ghsa.  I don't think anyone is trying to hide them.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 20, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
No, individual scores for each area on the rubric are not listed anywhere. Only the total score of each judge. It doesn't matter at this point any way. It was just a question I was curious about.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: Cheerknowledge on November 20, 2014, 02:29:20 PM
Correct.  The rubrics are not available.  Only total scores.
Title: Re: Saturday - STATE CHAMPIONSHIP - AAA
Post by: cheerchamp1 on November 20, 2014, 02:30:16 PM

Correct.  The rubrics are not available.  Only total scores.

Thanks!!